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April 29, 2013 / JayMan

Unhooked over Django Unchained

django-unchained-jamie-foxx

So I’ve finally seen Django Unchained. First of all, I have to say, it is actually a really good movie. Second, I have to say that all the White Nationalists and others who were pissing and moaning about this movie need to take a long look in a mirror and spend some time reading a history book. If they don’t recognize some of the awful stuff that went on in the American Deep South during slavery (which was the bedrock of society in the antebellum South), well, they need to find out a few things (Albion’s Seed and American Nations are good places to start).

This is NOT to say that those awful things were unique to the Deep Southern slavers (they weren’t). This is also NOT to say that this movie is to serve as some sort of modern-day moral guide. I am also NOT saying that modern American Southerners bear some sort of inherited responsibility for slavery (they don’t; the handful of Jim Crow era people who are still kicking around, that’s another matter entirely). NOR am I saying that this movie is entirely historically accurate (it isn’t).

But I think the hoopla over the movie, especially from the voices that proclaimed things to effect that White people who liked to movie are necessarily some sort of race traitors (which is silly) says something serious about the detractors.

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46 Comments

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  1. Anonymous / Apr 30 2013 12:27 AM

    JayMan, are you black? If so why in a July post did you refer to your possible future children with your black girlfriend as your “half and halves”?

    Are you still dating her?

    And what is the gripe with multi-culturalism I keep reading about?

    Are you in the USA? America has never been mono-culturalist, why should it start now?

    And what does “cathedral” mean in your lexicon?

    And one more quesiton, are you an atheist?

    • JayMan / Apr 30 2013 12:53 PM

      Yes I am Black.

      You’re mixing me up with Mr. IWSB, half & half, commenter asdf. :p

      My children with my White (soon to be wife) won’t be “half & halfs”, that’s for sure.

      And what is the gripe with multi-culturalism I keep reading about?

      Are you in the USA? America has never been mono-culturalist, why should it start now?

      You sure you’re reading my blog?

      And what does “cathedral” mean in your lexicon?

      A very large, usually Roman Catholic, house of worship… 😉

      For more about me, see here. Read all about it:

      About Me « JayMan’s Blog

    • Tulio / May 18 2013 4:24 AM

      Jayman, I’m curious, does your white fiancee share your racial views? If so, how did you end up finding a pro-HBD white woman that wants to marry a black man? Talk about finding a needle in a haystack! I say this given that most white HBDers are racist/tribalist in some form or another(though not all of course).

    • Amber / May 18 2013 5:43 AM

      *Is white*
      *Likes HBD*
      *Has zero racial preferences in mates, friends, or anything else.*
      I guess it’s kind of like enjoying scouting, but not having anything against gay folks. The homophobes are just an annoying part of the territory you’d rather not be associated with.

    • JayMan / May 18 2013 9:58 AM

      She is liberal (more liberal than me) and feminist on top of that. But like she says, she believes in statistics.

      She has the classic Puritan beliefs, in that she isn’t really keen on people willy-nilly moving in, only those that can adapt to the way of life here (as how it should be).

      I think far more people on the Left of the spectrum would be open to HBD than alt-rightists give credit for.

  2. Staffan / Apr 30 2013 8:17 AM

    “America has never been mono-culturalist, why should it start now?”‘

    That’s a matter of definition. Until the 1960s White Protestants were the dominant group. It seems to me that no country does well without a dominant tribe. Just look at the ethnically diverse countries in Africa or how the countries in Eastern Europe fell apart along ethnic lines after the communist era.

    And, yeah, are you still dating her? If not, is it ok if I give her a call? : )

    • JayMan / Apr 30 2013 12:54 PM

      Going to be marrying her soon… 🙂

    • Anonymous / Apr 30 2013 1:28 PM

      Staffan, people can choose whatever religion they want. I was born into a culturally Protestant family but I have choosen my own very different religion and converted at an early age. I got exposed to that religion right here in the States, where freedom of religion is a way of life.

  3. Clay / Apr 30 2013 12:03 PM

    The OP’s post was unusually calm and reasonable. This movie doesn’t look entertaining or educational and I’d prefer to avoid the subject matter unless there was some clever take on it.

    It’s odd that the OP identifies as a strong liberal both socially and economically yet has a blog reading list that I would consider quite far right. I’d like to understand that.

    • JayMan / Apr 30 2013 12:58 PM

      See here and here.

      While it seems that way, unfortunately, facts shouldn’t have an ideological attachment, only one’s thoughts on what to do about those facts. Facts are empirical, ideology is largely normative.

    • Anonymous / Apr 30 2013 1:36 PM

      Clay, I wonder what you and the OP JayMan consider “socially liberal”. You may have two entirely different ideas.

      For my own life I am socially conservative because I order my behaviour and lifestyle around Yogic values where self control, modesty, personal responsibility and sexual restraint are foundational principles.

      However, as I cultivate empathy and compassion, I am naturally a bit more lenient toward others in the West as I understand they most likely do not have any acculturation in the above values.

      It also of paramount importance that individuals decide for themselves what course to take in life and I don’t infringe upon other people’s individual liberty or freedom, therefore some might call me socially liberal in that context.

      Economically I am a minimalist. Buying second hand stuff is fine with me. I do not accumulate wealth but live simply within my modest means so that the majority of my time and energy can go toward what I consider higher pursuits.

      I guess I’d be economically conservative since I do a lot of conserving and more recycling of second hand stuff than buying new expensive stuff.

  4. Staffan / Apr 30 2013 3:19 PM

    “Staffan, people can choose whatever religion they want. I was born into a culturally Protestant family but I have choosen my own very different religion and converted at an early age. I got exposed to that religion right here in the States, where freedom of religion is a way of life.”

    Sure they can. I’m not saying White Protestants should rule the Earth or anything. I’m saying that countries with no dominant tribe have a lot of trouble and sometimes fall apart. And when they do, they do so along ethnic lines. White people moving out of places like California to places like Utah – that’s most likely a sign of the inherent instability of multiculturalism.

    • Anonymous / Apr 30 2013 6:29 PM

      I dunno. To me multi-culturalism means having access to a wider variety of art, music, literature, dance, religion and philosophy than the ones I have grown up with, which have never inspired me and which I have always found to be trite and shallow.

  5. Andrew Selvarasa (@Animelee) / Apr 30 2013 9:26 PM

    The modern melting pot is my ideal — taking the absolute best aspects from all of the world’s cultures and adapting them to the culture of your area. A good culture is one that is always willing to improve in logical, rational ways. A good culture is not devoid of empathy, as long as that empathy is also logical and rational. Unfortunately ego, laziness and fear get in the way of people accepting change that is objectively good.

    I was born and raised, and still live in, Southern Ontario. I was raised Christian, and deeply believed until I was seventeen, when I got into science and became an atheist. I also went vegetarian and then vegan by 21, for moral reasons. I always sought out logic, reason and peace. In a way, aren’t we all? At least I hope so.

    At the same time, one can practice and believe whatever they like with friends and family, as long as it’s relatively benign and harmless and peaceful. Like I said, reject the bad, keep the good, and always strive for peace.*

    *Not the “peace” one derives from war. Clearly interventionism doesn’t work — it makes things worse on both ends. Change comes from within, and we need to leave other countries alone to change on their own.

    • Anonymous / May 1 2013 12:46 AM

      Andrew, are you Desi?

    • Anonymous / May 1 2013 1:32 AM

      “I was born and raised, and still live in, Southern Ontario. ”

      Ahhh, ok. Didn’t see that part. Anyway, are you ethnically Desi?

    • Andrew Selvarasa (@Animelee) / May 2 2013 10:17 PM

      Dad’s from Sri Lanka, Mom’s from Guyana; I don’t consider myself Desi. Genetically I would most likely cluster with the average Browny McBrownerson, though. 😉 How come?

    • Anonymous / May 3 2013 8:45 PM

      ” I don’t consider myself Desi. ”

      Andrew, do you know any Indians directly from India where you live? 1st generation? 2nd?

      Do Indo-Caribbeans and Indians from India mix and mingle or stay separate in your area?

  6. Amber / Apr 30 2013 9:47 PM

    Anonymous, that may just mean that your parents did a shitty job of exposing you to your own cultural heritage. I assume you are the same anon who grew up “culturally protestant,” which in turn I take to imply that you are an American white. Frankly, if you think that everyone from Socrates to Kant to Marx and Mill was ‘trite and shallow’: if the concepts of democracy, human rights, freedom of conscience and religion, and even, yes, multiculturalism do not impress you; if you’ve enjoyed nothing of literature from Homer to Dracula, War and Peace or Lolita, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars; if you truly have no taste for French cuisine, German beer and sausage, pizza, bacon, apple pie, or barbeque; if you find nothing impressive about the Sistine Chapel or Les Mis, Faust or Beethoven’s 5th, and have never seen a lovely ballet or waltzed, enjoyed a square dance or a cheerful jig; and if you really think Christianity is all that different, intellectually or practically, from the other major religions; then I feel really sorry for you.

    We may debate about what exactly ‘multiculturalism’ is, or what counts as ‘Protestant culture’, or even agree that Thai food is delicious, rock music is awesome, and 50 Shades of Gray is an affront against literature, but to dismiss the entirety of your cultural heritage as “trite and shallow” says only that your parents did a bad job or that you are being intellectually dishonest. It’s not an effective argument for multi-culturalism as its being discussed here on this site; it’s an argument for rock and roll and burritos.

    • Amber / Apr 30 2013 10:06 PM

      To be clear, you don’t get multicultural THINGS without multicultural PEOPLE; both anon and Andrew seem to have an image of “multiculturalism” which means “people like themselves enjoying the best of the world’s cultures”, without any real-world contact with the people who produced those cultures or any of the negative sides of those cultures. You want Indian philosophy, but not the caste system; you want burritos, not unskilled immigrants pushing down general wages; you want neighbors who enrich your life, not neighbors who ignore you because you do not speak the same language.

      Too much opposition to new people and ideas leads to ossification, stagnation, and often dramatic failure, but too much openness just leads to being overrun.

  7. Amber / Apr 30 2013 10:17 PM

    Jeez, just to quote Jayman’s own Twitter comment from the sidebar, “78% of Afghan Muslims think those who leave Islam should be executed.”
    I’m not a Christian, and one of my closest, oldest friends is a Muslim, but I’m not exactly itching to embrace the other religions of the world. Modern American Christians are a pretty mellow bunch, overall.

    • Amber / Apr 30 2013 10:18 PM

      Or Jayman’s quote of Dawkins’s comment, sorry.

    • Anonymous / May 1 2013 12:48 AM

      Amber, I’m going to address you points down below, so scroll, my love, scroll.

  8. Andrew Selvarasa (@Animelee) / Apr 30 2013 11:00 PM

    You say his parents did a shitty job exposing him to “his own cultural heritage”. I’ve always found this phrase annoying, as many brown people around here get on my case for not speaking any brown languages or not following any brown religions or not eating any brown dishes. Just because I share recent ancestry with them does not mean that I am to adhere to their chosen cultural norms. Their culture is not “my cultural heritage”. Culture isn’t something that should automatically be intertwined with phenotype. Culture isn’t inborn.

    I’m not ranting towards you Amber, just people who think culture, ancestry and phenotype should be intertwined. But don’t be hurt by him “rejecting his culture”, so to speak. I like many aspects of the European cultures, if that matters to you. I don’t know if you’re a white nationalist, so I’m not sure if a non-white appreciating aspects of the European cultures matters to you or not.

    I especially like the ideas that came out of the Scottish enlightenment. I like modern mathematics and physics. I like the modern scientific method. Isaac Newton and Nikola Tesla are my idols, and I’m planning to get framed pictures of them to hang beside my living room’s mini whiteboard.

    I know there is a lot of accepted racism towards white people today, especially white men. European success is meant to be seen as evil and achieved through ill-gotten means like slavery and persecution. Yet, many people fail to realize that all races and all ethnicities have taken part in slavery, WITHOUT WHITES.

    Whites were also KEPT AS SLAVES, but we never teach this in school.

    Much collective human progress today has been gotten through immoral practices, regardless of race. But much has also been gotten through benign, harmless methods; even kindness.

    Don’t let the accepted — and PROMOTED — attitudes towards whites today discourage you. I promise you we’re not all like that. I am vocal about various injustices, and I’ve changed a lot of people’s minds (both white and coloured) about the current global idea that white people are evil and privileged. It’s not much, but I hope it means something to any whites who feel persecuted that are reading this.

    • Amber / May 1 2013 2:37 AM

      Andrew, I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I am not a nationalist of any sort; actually, I find nationalism kind of repulsive. I happen to favor certain policies for the nation I live in because I live there; I am familiar with my cultural heritage because that’s the culture I live in and that most people I interact with are from. Likewise, I love my mother because she is my mother, not because she’s particularly better than everyone else’s mothers. I don’t think that anyone should partake or shouldn’t partake of any particular cultural forms, but for someone to dismiss an entire culture as “trite and shallow” begs defense. If you said you didn’t like anything about the culture you were raised in, I’d worry. Every culture has good, bad, deep, shallow, trite, and original, and I agree with you on the benefits of taking the good and leaving the bad.

  9. Anonymous / May 1 2013 1:26 AM

    “To be clear, you don’t get multicultural THINGS without multicultural PEOPLE; both anon and Andrew seem to have an image of “multiculturalism” which means “people like themselves enjoying the best of the world’s cultures”, without any real-world contact with the people who produced those cultures or any of the negative sides of those cultures. ”

    Don’t know about Andrew but I have plenty of experience travelling the world and engaging with various peoples and their cultures, the good, bad, beautiful and ugly of all of them.

    (However I think Andrew is Desi (South Asian) and might be living in the West so that means he would have plenty of experience with the shitty aspects of a culture other than his own too, right Andrew?)

    As far as my parents doing a “shitty job” you don’t know squat about them lady, or man, so just check yourself before you wreck yourself. My parents were hard working, working class people who established a middle class life for themselves so they could raise their children in more comfort than they were raised with. They were not intellectuals, but they were good parents. They were typical, average Americans for their time.

    ” I assume you are the same anon who grew up “culturally protestant,” which in turn I take to imply that you are an American white.”

    — Yes, I’m American white but while I was exposed to various forms of Protestantism and Christianity in general during my young childhood, I found it a ridiculous religion and the Bible lacking in philosophical content by the time I was a teen, and that set me on a philosophical and metaphysical quest.

    “Frankly, if you think that everyone from Socrates to Kant to Marx and Mill was ‘trite and shallow’”

    — Compared to what I study now, yes. That is my personal opinion to which I am entitled.

    “if the concepts of democracy, human rights, freedom of conscience and religion, and even, yes, multiculturalism do not impress you”

    — I like those concepts and they were not invented in the US.

    “if you’ve enjoyed nothing of literature from Homer to Dracula, War and Peace or Lolita, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars”

    — Homer was ok, from what I recall.

    “if you truly have no taste for French cuisine, German beer and sausage, pizza, bacon, apple pie, or barbeque;”

    — Out of the above, only apple pie.
    I don’t drink alcohol, am a vegetarian, and the marinara sauce + garlic on pizza makes me sick.

    “if you find nothing impressive about the Sistine Chapel or Les Mis, Faust or Beethoven’s 5th”

    — I like Beethoven, but all those 4 are European, not American anyway. Again, not my culture, they belong to foreign cultures.

    “and have never seen a lovely ballet”

    — Took lessons as a child

    “or waltzed”

    — I don’t think I’ve ever waltzed.

    “enjoyed a square dance or a cheerful jig”

    — I’ve square danced and jigged, and while fun for a few minutes, not something to write home about.

    “and if you really think Christianity is all that different, intellectually or practically, from the other major religions”

    — The Abrahamic faiths are VERY DIFFERENT from the Asian philosophical systems.

    “then I feel really sorry for you.”

    — No problem.

    “We may debate about what exactly ‘multiculturalism’ is, or what counts as ‘Protestant culture’, or even agree that Thai food is delicious”

    — I’m not interested enough in Protestant culture to debate it and I’m not all that fond of Thai cuisine.

    “rock music is awesome”

    — It is not.

    “and 50 Shades of Gray is an affront against literature”

    — I don’t read fiction.

    “but to dismiss the entirety of your cultural heritage as “trite and shallow”:

    — At least half of the stuff you listed as being “my cultural heritage” is in fact from various European countries, not the USA.

    “says only that your parents did a bad job or that you are being intellectually dishonest.”

    — No. It says that I am not now nor have I ever been very much moved by much of American culture; its literature, its cuisine, its religions, its music, etc. I just don’t relate. My nature and tastes are different.

    “It’s not an effective argument for multi-culturalism as its being discussed here on this site; it’s an argument for rock and roll and burritos.”

    — I like burritos. Rock and roll could drop off the face of the Earth as far as I’m concerned.

    “You want Indian philosophy”

    — I do.

    “but not the caste system”

    — Caste is good. Caste discrimination is bad.

    “you want burritos”

    — I can live without them.

    “not unskilled immigrants pushing down general wages”

    — I don’t work for a boss but I grok how that could be an issue for those who do.

    “you want neighbors who enrich your life, not neighbors who ignore you because you do not speak the same language.”

    — Actually I wouldn’t mind neighbors who ignored me.

    In other words Amber, you don’t know me and your assumptions are silly stereotypes.

    • Andrew Selvarasa (@Animelee) / May 1 2013 1:51 AM

      I’m born and raised in Southern Ontario, and still live here. I’ve never traveled — too cheap and too lazy. I live amongst all kinds of religions and races here, and never really had a problem with anyone. That may be because I don’t go to bars or nightclubs or house parties, heh.

      My dad’s from Sri Lanka, but my mom is from Guyana. However, her great-grandparents were from Northeast India.

      About your point on caste being good:

      In Sri Lanka, although Christian, my dad was part of the top-tier caste, but my mom’s great-grandparents in Northeast India were of the lowest caste, which is primarily why they left India and traversed the oceans to South America. Caste helps no one except those who are born on top. I’m curious as to why you’re in favor of it?

    • Amber / May 1 2013 2:40 AM

      You honestly sound like you need psychiatric help. And you apparently don’t know where Protestantism comes from.

    • Anonymous / May 1 2013 3:06 AM

      “You honestly sound like you need psychiatric help.”

      OK I’ll bite. My answers were short and straightforward. Which one or ones makes you think that “I need psychiatric help” and why?

      (By the way, I don’t do drugs either, so Big Psych and its sister Big Pharma are both out of the question. Sankhya, Vedanta and Yoga philosophies are mind sciences and have clear psychology models that work for me.)

      “And you apparently don’t know where Protestantism comes from.”

      Ask me if I care. I am not, nor have I ever been, deeply interested in Christianity. It is too anti-freedom and anti-intellectual for my leanings.

      “To be clear, you don’t get multicultural THINGS without multicultural PEOPLE; both anon and Andrew seem to have an image of “multiculturalism” which means “people like themselves enjoying the best of the world’s cultures”, without any real-world contact with the people who produced those cultures or any of the negative sides of those cultures. ”

      Now this is interesting. What makes you think I would be more interested in multicultural THINGS than I am multicultural PEOPLE?

      Projection much?

      “both anon and Andrew seem to have an image of “multiculturalism” which means “people like themselves enjoying the best of the world’s cultures”, without any real-world contact with the people who produced those cultures or any of the negative sides of those cultures. ” ”

      Since returning I am literally STARVING for “real world contact” with people from the culture that moves me. So much so I drive long distances to be in areas where they are more populated and am currently raising money to bring a few over here and host a Vedanta Conference.

    • Anonymous / May 1 2013 3:13 AM

      Andrew, “Caste helps no one except those who are born on top. I’m curious as to why you’re in favor of it?”

      You mean to say caste discrimination helps no one. Caste is familial and sub-cultural affiliation, like a tribe. Actually Hindu Civilization has no “caste” it has varna, jati and gotra. Casta is Portuguese and the Portuguese colonized part of India and introduced their casta system. The British were also confused by varna, jati and gotra, which they had no access to and did not understand, and so amalgamated the 3 and imposed their class system upon it.

  10. Anonymous / May 1 2013 3:19 AM

    Andrew: “Yet, many people fail to realize that all races and all ethnicities have taken part in slavery”

    Politically correct bullshit.

    ALL civilizations have not taken part in the slave trade. Hindu Civilization was noted as very curious by the ancient Greeks for NOT having any system for slavery.

    Remember ALL CULTURES ARE NOT THE SAME NOR EQUAL, despite what the pc zeitgeist might tell you.

    • Anonymous / May 1 2013 3:40 AM

      Andrew: “In Sri Lanka, although Christian, my dad was part of the top-tier caste, but my mom’s great-grandparents in Northeast India were of the lowest caste, which is primarily why they left India and traversed the oceans to South America.”

      Where in Northeast India? Which state? Most Indians who ended up in Trinidad and Guyana were not from “the lowest caste” but rather were Bihari farmers (of the vaisya varna) who went there as indentured labors after slavery was abolished but slave owners still did not want to work themselves or pay people labor-congruent wages, so they imported easily exploitable dirt cheap labor. Sound familiar? If you were an American it would, don’t know how they do things up in Canada.

      It may be true that your great-grandparents were of the “lowest caste” or it may just be that like many Caribbean descended Desis, you actually have incorrect information about your history.

      Please read my comment above for more info on this so called “caste” thing.

    • Andrew Selvarasa (@Animelee) / May 1 2013 9:55 PM

      All cultures are definitely not equal, you’re right. I prefer Canadian culture to Tamil-Sri Lankan culture and Indo-Guyanese culture. But I do think that caste is an institutionalized version of “soft slavery”. I’ve read many stories of Dalits who are forced to clean the feces of the higher castes.

      I’m not sure where they hail from? They were Muslims and Hindus. Some had light skin and blue eyes, some had the epicanthic fold and thick, straight black hair (EDAR), and some had dark skin and looked more stereotypically Dravidian like myself. These phenotypes still float around on my mom’s side of the family, so I really have no idea. When I have some money, I’m planning to get all of us genotyped. I’m fascinated by the fact that you’re so well-versed in Indian culture and history.

      You seem to be in love with Indian culture, which is nice. Like any other culture, there are laudable and shameful aspects. Jainism is my favourite aspect of Indian culture, and the type of Buddhism and meditation that Sam Harris speaks about seems intriguing. I love American culture for its freedom, rebellious attitude that teaches us to question authority, and media like music, comic books, film and television, but of course, we know it’s definitely far from perfect.

      (I’m sorry for talking about myself so much in these comments; I feel very narcissistic.)

    • Anonymous / May 2 2013 12:57 AM

      Hi Andrew!
      You said you never left Canada and yet you say your prefer Canadian culture to two other cultures (Tamil Sri Lankan & Indo Guyanese) without ever having been to Sri Lanka or Guyana!!!

      “I’m not sure where they hail from? ”

      – But you said they were from the Northeast of India. So….why did you say that? Also curious what caste your great-grandparents were since you said their were the “lowest caste”. What’s the name of their caste?

      Like I said, most Indians who went to the Caribbean were agriculturalists from the state of Bihar which is not Northeast but rather North Central. There’s a documentary on the internet about this history which I cannot find right now but if I do I’ll post it for you.
      Bihar is the state where Buddha attained enlightenment in fact, and where the ancient Buddhist University “Nalanda” was located (since you like Buddhism).

      “But I do think that caste is an institutionalized version of “soft slavery”. I’ve read many stories of Dalits who are forced to clean the feces of the higher castes.”

      – But “caste” is not a product of traditional Hindu Civilization. In traditional Hindu Civilization there was no “dalit” and only 4 varnas (divisions of labor).
      Hindu Civilization has varna, jati, gotra and kula.
      Varna (occupation) is fluid.
      Jati (community) is generally simultaneously fixed and fluid (familial lineage — religious/cultural). Gotra (patri-lineage) is fixed (genetic).
      Kula is fluid (communal association).

      As far as being “forced” to clean feces – I have lived in a town where people did clean toilets FOR PAY. They also cleaned trash from the roads FOR PAY and sometimes cleaned open sewers FOR PAY. Nobody “forced” them. Those were their jobs for pay. I suppose their “caste” would have been “dalit”. Just like the US (and Canada I’ll presume), India has “affirmative action” and a certain number of seats in college, governments and jobs are “reserved” for dalits and other castes.

      Since you have Tamil ancestry you might be interested to know that Tam Brahms (brahmins from the southern state of Tamil Nadu) have migrated en masse to other states because they cannot get employment in their own state due to its affirmative action for certain castes (not brahmins, obviously).

      People who do not belong to castes that are conventionally thought of as backward or in need of help are clamoring to get recognized as “backwards” so they can also avail themselves of India’s very extensive affirmative action program.

      The most ridiculous thing is that caste is NOT an indigenous aspect of South Asian Hindu Civilization (as I explained in my other comment).

      “You seem to be in love with Indian culture, which is nice.”

      – There is no monolithic Indian culture. There are literally THOUSANDS of cultures in India (and many languages). The place has a lot of civic, and like the US, social issues (but of a different sort).
      However I very much appreciate the general South Asian Hindu civilizational ethos, but within that, some of its sub-cultures are more preferred than others.

      “Like any other culture, there are laudable and shameful aspects.”

      – Of course.

      “I love American culture for its freedom”

      – Interesting. Freedom is one of the reasons I love South Asian Hindu Civilization where ideas, philosophies, religions, gods, goddesses, atheism, agnosticism, traditions, customs and practices of an almost limitless variety have always flourished.

      “I love American culture for ….rebellious attitude that teaches us to question authority”

      – Yeah, you are a Canadian who’s never been to the US right? From an American perspective I can tell you that *real* questioning of authority gets shut down here. And our “freedoms” only go so far. But the myth of “rugged individualism is certainly still alive”

      And that “rebellious attitude?” Its often fak. Mere bravado that betrays a lack of culture and respect for others, as well as tremendous self doubt and insecurity.

      “and media like music, comic books, film and television”

      – The media is probably the thing I dislike the most about this place. So trashy, nihilistic and depressing.

      “but of course, we know it’s definitely far from perfect.”

      – Yes. Very far.

  11. Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes / May 1 2013 1:48 PM

    My impression is that white butthurt over Django Unchained was a proxy for discontent over real issues that they’re scared to talk about.

    • JayMan / May 1 2013 5:11 PM

      Partially. I’m not convinced that that’s the whole reason though…

    • Anonymous / May 2 2013 12:09 AM

      I haven’t seen it and probably won’t but why would whites be butthurt over it and why did Spike Lee say it was an insult to his ancestors?

  12. Anonymous / May 1 2013 5:25 PM

    I too just saw Django Unchained. I have a Home Theater and so I tend to see movies about three months after they are first shown in theaters.

    My reaction was that Tarantino was in decline. Pulp Fiction and the Kill Bill movies were far more startling and stylistic. In all three of these earlier films the plot is presented in chapters out of order. It is not clear what is going on. There are these ten to twenty minute set pieces that seem unconnected but then are shown to be part of a narrative that is only assembled in the viewer’s head.

    But Django is a straight forward standard revenge movie with a linear plot line. It’s like “Walking Tall” or any of a thousand other movies in which the hero reaps bloody revenge on the guys who assaulted or killed his wife or daughter or brother or cousin in the opening reels.

    Compared to his previous work, Django seemed to me to be conventional. In Pulp Fiction I never expected Travolta would stab Uma Thurman in the heart with a big needle. I didn’t expect most of the silly, crazy things that happened in Kill Bill either. But I knew there was a big shoot out coming in Django. I knew Django would gun down a lot of white guys.

    For someone who admittedly knows little about the real world but everything about the movie world I was startled by the continuing theme in Django that black men never rode horses. Didn’t Tarantino see all those black cowboys in the movies? We have had black movie cowboys as far back as Sidney Poitier.

    Albertosaurus

    • Anonymous / May 2 2013 12:59 AM

      Black cowboys? Sounds sexy!

  13. Anonymous / May 2 2013 3:02 AM

    I don’t understand why Tarantino’s movies are taken so seriously. To me, they are empty in a sense that Tarantiono is not actually trying to say anything about things or world or history, they are based on other movies and popular culture. They don’t have any themes or message, they are formalistic exercises, Tarantino is a movie freak, a childish or teenager like who tries to do something that looks cool and would appeal to his own sensibilities.

  14. A Different Anonymous / May 3 2013 1:46 AM

    Well, Jayman. I know I’m a little late to the party here, but since you’ve always seemed like a decent guy, and you seem like you genuinely want an answer and haven’t gotten one, I thought I’d throw my two cents in.

    I’m not a white nationalist by any stretch of the imagination, so I don’t want to speak for them, but do you want to know why I didn’t feel like seeing Django? Well…

    Do you sit around wondering why gay people didn’t feel like eating at Chick-fil-A after hearing Dan Cathy’s comments about gay marriage? I bet you don’t. If you can understand that, then you can probably understand why I didn’t really feel like seeing Django Unchained.

    I am speaking, of course, about Jamie Foxx’s comments on Saturday Night Live about how cool his new movie was, because he got to kill all the white people. These were widely circulated around the web before the movie came out. So was the fact that the Saturday Night Live audience (most of whom supported the Chick-fil-A boycott, no doubt) cheered him on.

    Yes, I know that the “white people” he killed were white slaveowners. But that’s not what he said. He said it was cool that he got to kill all the white people. As a white person, that kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Particularly having seen all hell break loose after Dan Cathy made a very mild comment about gay marriage a few months before.

    You write: ” I am also NOT saying that modern American Southerners bear some sort of inherited responsibility for slavery (they don’t; the handful of Jim Crow era people who are still kicking around, that’s another matter entirely).”

    OK, well, not only is that true, but it’s also true that Jamie Foxx never actually experienced slavery or Jim Crow either. But he still thinks it’s cool that he gets to kill all the white people.

    Take it a step further. Not only are the white people of today not oppressing him, but they have made him wealthy beyond your or my wildest dreams. If it hadn’t been for the white people at record companies, movie studios and television production companies, as well as all the white people who buy his songs and tickets to his movies, Jamie Foxx would still be a struggling stand-up comedian, facing the prospect of having to get a real job (and that’s leaving aside the fact that, if it wasn’t for slavery, he wouldn’t even be here in the United States in the first place). Face it. White people are the best thing that ever happened to Jamie Foxx.

    So, imagine being the average white person today, who couldn’t oppress a black person if he wanted to, seeing a fabulously wealthy, though not particularly talented, black man on TV, talking about how cool it is that he gets to kill people like you. You think that makes them want to watch his movie?

    Particularly since we live in an environment in which white people have to walk on eggshells to avoid hurting the feelings of blacks if they want to keep a job. I’m sure you know what happened to James Watson. He made a simple statement of fact, that didn’t involve fantasies of killing anyone, and look what happened to him.

    And where were the studio heads or people like that? Did they come out and say “We regret Mr Foxx’s statements about killing white people, and he does not speak for this agency, and blah blah blah blah blah…”? If they did, I didn’t hear it.

    Is it irrational to not want to see a movie because of something like that? I guess it might be. I also guess it’s my fifteen bucks, and I don’t feel like spending it to help make Jamie Foxx richer.

    Suppose they made a remake of Death Wish, and the actor who played Paul Kersey made a joke on Saturday Night Live about how much he liked playing Paul because he got to kill all the black people. Would you blame black people for not wanting to see it? Why not? I’m sure you realize that black thugs really did make life a living hell for New Yorkers back in the 1970s. What’s the matter? Can’t they handle the truth?

    Of course, that’s a silly question, because you know as well as I do that that scenario is never going to happen. If they remade Death Wish today, Paul Kersey would be played by Will Smith, and all the bad guys would be assault-rifle-cradling rednecks.

    To get back to the issue at hand, what would be the point of seeing Django Unchained anyway? I think I know the moral to the movie: Slavery Was Bad. Got it, thanks.

    People have been telling me Slavery Was Bad pretty consistently for as long as I can remember, for free. Why would I want to pay money to hear it again?

    Can you even imagine a cheaper, less courageous moral statement to make in 2012, than Slavery Was Bad? It’s like watching an Afterschool Special on TV about how Drugs Are Bad. I can just imagine myself sitting in a movie theater, with a hundred other spectators, all of them cheering on Django and booing at the slaveowners, imagining themselves to be so superior, when we all know perfectly well that, if they were somehow transported back in time and made the owners of plantations, they’d be doing the exact same thing. I’m just allergic to that sort of thing.

    Even if I wasn’t, why would I want to see Django Unchained anyway? You say it’s a great movie. Fine. I don’t think you’re lying. But there are thousands of really great movies that I haven’t seen. I have a couple of books on my bookshelf of classic movies that I need to see, and I haven’t even made it halfway through them all yet.

    So. I’m sorry for going on so long. The original draft of this was longer, so count your blessings. I just felt like you deserved an answer.

    Word to the wise, before I go. Comments about how us white folks need to take a long, hard look in the mirror every time we complain about something annoying black people do? Played out. A long time ago.

    • asdf / May 10 2013 10:50 PM

      +1000

  15. Andrew Selvarasa (@Animelee) / May 3 2013 12:10 PM

    You’re right that both Jamie Foxx and the writer(s) should have been lambasted for that “joke”.

  16. Anonymous / May 3 2013 2:35 PM

    Jamie Foxx also made disgusting sexual remarks about a minor and when he come under some heat for it, passed it off as “humor”. The guy is an uncultured, arrogant asshole, and very ugly to boot.

  17. panjoomby / May 3 2013 9:45 PM

    Jayman, sir – i hesitated to watch this for all the implied reasons listed – then my son loaned me his blu-ray & i watched it yesterday – LOVED IT! it’s a great movie – i had no problems with it! Liked it almost as much as Pulp Fiction, but more than all Tarantino’s other movies. Loved the acting, Jamie Foxx’s character arc (& acting) was brilliant, his role was more complex than the German’s, b/c Foxx had the arc. Loved that Tarantino lets his actors act – instead of underact, as is the norm. Anyway, you were right! (duhh). Also, for history buffs – it’s so clearly an alternate universe kind of world, that facts in it simply exist as dictated by Mr. Tarantino (so history buffs – lighten up, dudes!)

    • JayMan / May 3 2013 10:28 PM

      Yup. Pretty much my impressions exactly (except the initial hesitance, of course… 😉 )

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